Actually, sodomy also encompasses oral sex and another other form or sexual action that involves two or more participants that has no possibility of creating children.

So, sodomy laws affected a lot more than homosexuals.

I know what sodomy..(sorry for spelling it wrong earlier) is. I never once said I had anything against homosexuals or bisexuals. One of my best friends is bisexual and I love him to death. It doesn't mean that I approve of what he does or that I want to know what he does. But it is not my place to judge, it is Gods. Therefore, I am not judging anyone about what they do.

So, that would mean nobody is judging them if there is no god? Why would these rules be in effect if nobody is being judged? Someone is judging. I think religious folks should be mad that the homosexual community is being judged by people, rather than god.

Dear Kristi P,

Separation of Church and State is clearly outlined by our forefathers in the creation of our government. Are you against your religion or are you against your country?

Sincerely,

Edward B

yeah. not hard to do if this wasn't a college site i would go into a lovly detail of how wrong you are.
and if you believe that don't tell my gurlfriend she will end you.

i am a gurl by the way

please if my gay friend , thte guy one, told me what he was donig with his boyfriend i would pull up a seat and enjoy the story. but i;m just wired like that so proceed in waht you believe. i will not judge you ,but nor will i join you. man now i feel like talking to him.
and cry big bloody tears while ripping out my heart, tellling him about the mean people i met on the internet.

ohhh beast mood .you just got sauced

What are you talking about. The topic is about Dont ask, dont tell. Where does sodomy come in?

My name is Kirsti, Edward. Obviously, by my comments I am not against my religion. I am also NOT against our country. My dad is active duty army. I know alot about the topic because I talk to him about all things. I haven't been rude to you about anything so I would appreciate it if you would not be.

because politics and science should never be asscoiated. two different thing. JUst like how science and the bibles hould never be bought together either.

Well, if homosexuals join the military, and they don't want to be discharged, then they shouldnt have sex. I don't think soldiers are allowed to have sex anyways.
Why should we deny their right to fight for this country? It's their country too! What if someone told you that you couldn't go and fight beside your brother, your sister, your father and protect the country that you love just because you MiGhT look at your fellow soldier in a weird way?
Eff that.

i feel like obama should not mess with the military and things he doesnt know...

i feel like its not relevant to take away it--i mean i dont go around saying i am straight...no one care..you are not required to say whether you are or not..you can be gay in the military you just dont say

Obama has never even been in the military. He has no clue what goes on. My father is active duty. Therefore, I know the regulations.. and so do the homosexuals in the military. If they dont want to be kicked out of the military they should be quiet, hince the "dont ask, dont tell" policy.

not trying to be rude but i genuinely want to know what rights are being violated in not asking someone's sexual orientation?

ok thanks

They know the rules. If they don't want to be persecuted for the way that they are, they should keep it to themselves. I have nothing against homosexuals, my best friend is bisexual. They know what society thinks about it, so if they do not want the problems they should just keep their personal lives to themselves. If they don't mind what others think then go for it. More power to you.

I don't understand what you mean.

No I don't but what can I do to help. I still have my religion that I believe with all my heart. It is not my place to judge anyone.

I think Obama knows human rights. He is in charge of the damn country -- for those who didn't notice. There are people who want "don't ask don't tell" abolished. Those are the people who voted for him. The opinions are great, but the rule needs to be taken care of. I don't know if anyone else thinks so, but I don't think being gay is a reason to get kicked out of the military. That is crap. Why is the military just for straight people? If you believe it is, then you are messed up. Every straight person that thinks "don't ask don't tell" needs to stay in place can go fill the position of a person who is kicked out of the military for being gay. How is that? This is the land of the free yo. Remember that. Freedom doesn't come free. Apparently even the people who fight for your freedoms can't be free.

I won't lie. That sort of stuff -- bullying people who are different -- bugs the hell out of me. It is the worst thing a person can do in my book. I hate that. I don't think violence is the answer, but IF I ever saw someone bullying or beating up someone who was gay or different in any way I would do something about it. That is for sure. Picking on people because of their religion also makes me mad. I hate bullies. I hate them. I hate when people are vile and cruel because of their ignorance. Everything can't be blamed on the people doing the bullying because they don't understand, and not understanding something can cause irrational fear. The point is, don't hurt people because they are different. That is messed up. They are different, you won't change them if they want to be how they are -- get over it. I agree with Amanda.

I dont treat people different because of how they are. It really doesnt matter. It still doesnt change the fact that I believe in something totally different. I cant really help because that would make me a hypocrite to my own religion. I wish the persecution would stop. Everyone is the same. Black, Blue, White, Red, Gay, Bi..etc. Whats the difference. Sorry.

I dont treat people different because of how they are. It really doesnt matter. It still doesnt change the fact that I believe in something totally different. I cant really help because that would make me a hypocrite to my own religion. I wish the persecution would stop. Everyone is the same. Black, Blue, White, Red, Gay, Bi..etc. Whats the difference. Sorry.

I never said I have tried to change those who are different. I never said I was a bully either. I couldn't even hurt a bug, I think it's mean. So why would I purposelly hurt someone who is different than me..? If I seen someone getting beat up, yes, I would help..no matter who they are.
But in the military there are rules against being gay. It was not me who made the rules, so there's nothing I can do about it, but if those who are gay, who are in the military know these are the rules. As long as you dont personally come out and say "Im gay" then your okay. Thee is nothing that I can do to stop any of these problems..

The difference is that people think that if you are gay you will burn in Hell forever. No big deal. That wouldn't really hurt my self-esteem.

There is this god that loves everybody, except me....because I love someone of the same-sex.

Very curious, very very curious.

Amanda, I see what your saying. There is nothing I can do though... It is against my religion for homosexual relationships so I cannot really support them. Do you know what I mean?
It isnt that I want for people to be treated badly it is just the way things turn out.. I cannot control what others do. It is like being mentally retarded, people are extremely rude and hateful to those who are different. It makes me sick to my stomach that peopel treat others so terribly..

there is still the fact that religion has been used all through history to justify things, such as slavery,
everyone is a hypocrit, whether they want to be or not..
you may as well be a hypocrit for something that helps people than be a hypocrit about something silly,
i dont think human rights issues would matter that much,
you would be a good hypocrit if wanted dont ask dont tell abolished,
although, i dont understand why gay people who dont have a choice to be gay, shouldnt have equal rights...
its the same as black people,
centuries ago, they werent equal...
just as homosexuals arent equal now...
but...
how is it any different being born gay, or black?
when some people dont want to be gay or black because they have to go through all of the persecution... but they have no choice because they were born that way..
it doesnt make sense that someone cant be in the military because they are gay.
it doesnt help anyone,
it just adds to the inequality in our country,

Dear Kristi P,

If there is no difference between people, there should not be a complaint from you about the soldiers in our military. They are after all, all the same.

Sincerely,

Edward B

Wouldnt you want to hear what is going on, and not when stuff is about to be blown out into the open. That is why everything is so screwed up to many secerets.

What I believe and what I think to be true has no relavnce to the conversation. It is in fact about what those in charge of the Military think. I do, however, believe that homosexuals should keep it to themselves. They know that if they come out, so to speak, that they will be persecuted. So if they do not want to be, then the best thing for them to do is keep quiet.

First of all, you were are not in the military. And I guess your dad is, so you know exactly how it affects all soldiers. Even though that argument is severly falwed, Obama's grandfather was in WWII: "My grandfather marched in Patton's army" (From CBS News) So, according to your logic, he does have a pretty good idea of what's going on, right?
Plus, you've made it clear you "don't have a problem with homosexuals" just what they do. So, you obviously do have "a problem" with homosexuals if you disagree so strongly on how they act privately.
Oh and also, the "Don't ask, don't tell" law is ridiculous. It screams bigotry. If no other group has to go through this discrimination, it may not bother you, but what if it applied to Christians or Jews or left handed people. It's crazy a country so "evolved" is still stuck in this mindset that gay=bad.

Umm I am the the military?

Country so "evolved"? Humans haven't evolved since...hmm...history began. Technology doesn't make a country evolve....kinda sounds like pokemon stuff though. "Yea, 61 points until evolution!" Then that would be some monkey->human.

Because Obama's GRANDFATHER was in the Army back in WWII doesn't mean anything...otherwise we'd all be related to some big wealthy royalty from the 17th century if we traced our roots that far back. Because my father was in the military doesn't mean I would know how the military was (other than having a nice bootcamp treatment every day.) For which, I didn't know the whole picture until I joined.

Sonny X,

Actually, I was not defining evolution as in the biological development. Evolvution also means change.
e·volve /?'v?lv/ –verb
1.to develop gradually: to evolve a scheme.
As in, if America has progressed... has changed... has grown... I'm sorry if my word choice is too "pokemon" for you.

And I was using the whole "Grandfoather in WWII" thing as irony, you clever guy, you.
As in Kristi P said her father was in the military, so she knows what is going on, but becuase Obama is not, he has no idea. And according to her flawed logic, having a family member in the military lets you know exactly how soldiers act. Again, using it as irony, not as my logic.

Dear Sonny X,

Why? Explain why there would be issues. I've met homosexual men that have an amazing athletic ability and (suiting that my knowledge of the military boot camp services are correct) can easily pass those courses. Here is an example.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aubrey-sarvis/air-force-boots-their-25_b_205553.html

If you have been through the military, have you accomplished what this gay man has?

Sincerely,

Edward B

i go to a promintly gay and bi school so this convo isstupid for me

Dear Sonny X,

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/world/europe/21britain.html?pagewanted=print

However in Britain homosexuals openly serve there military though all branches with no issues. As a matter of fact according to the article it unified them and brought them closer together. Here are a few homosexual marines that have made headlines.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/20/us/homosexual-marine-decides-to-go-back-to-active-duty.html?pagewanted=1

http://militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1569636

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0009/18/lkl.00.html

http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Biology-Homosexual-Military-Stories/dp/0943595495

http://www.thetakeaway.org/2009/oct/05/gay-marine-featured-defaced-billboard-speaks-out/

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/MYSA041907_03B_dayofsilence_39db24d_html2726.html

http://www.ronpaulwarroom.com/?p=9961

http://instructional1.calstatela.edu/dweiss/Psy542/Attitudes.htm

A majority of these links refer to a homosexual marine. It would be foolish to think that you are better than they are. I find it funny that you're homophobic to the point you would rather face enemy bullets alone rather than have homosexual friends that will fight harder for your life than you will for theirs.

Sincerely,

Edward B

Well we aren't in Britain. We are in the US! There's a difference, whether I believe that being a homosexual is a sin..or i don't. What does it matter if I believe that? One person who doesn't have a problem with homosexuals and just thinks it's wrong, what will that hurt?????? I did nothing but state that abolishing the don't ask don't tell policy will cause a heap of problems. And if you don't think that it will, then you are very nieve.

Dear Sonny X,

Then go do your job. I hear there's mostly screws and bolts working for your branch of the military. I don't expect you to understand how I know that information either.

However I'm happy you agree that "If he's a homosexual then let him fight.".

Sincerely,

Edward B

Our "screws and bolts" is what's keeping you alive.

Marines also have a motto of never leave a brother behind.

Dear Sonny X,

I agree. I'm happy to hear you say that.

Sincerely,

Edward B

Sonny, isn't it might presumptious of you to state that nobody who is not in the military could understand the military?

Amanda has stated that she is a "military brat," born and raised by a parent in the armed forces. My father and uncle were both marines. My closest friend's father is currently in the army. Another one of my friend's mother was just sent to Iraq.

While I profess, I don't have all the knowledge required to debate this topic from inside the military mind, it's ridiculous for you to say that all of us don't have the required knowledge. If I really wished to learn about the military mindset, I could just ask any one of the people I know who are or were formerly in the military.

...Or I could look at the history book and ask why Truman's integration of the military didn't bother them?

Sonny, what if I told you no one cared about whether your comfortable with gays in the military or not?
I don't care if you're comfortable with gays showering with you. They don't have stamps on their foreheads saying "HI IM A HOMOSEXUAL." They aren't going to come up to you and say "HEY I THINK YOU'RE PRETTY HOT."
You are risking your life for your country, you have to undergo HOURS and MONTHS and even years of hard physical labor, and undergo some of the most difficult training and experiences. Yet, somehow, despite the fact that you basically signed your "comfort" away you still want to be babied because you're afraid of some one looking at you in the shower.
You are in the military, and I would like to thank you for risking your life, but I would also like to say: GROW A PAIR and STOP DISCRIMINATING. Discrimination is counter productive, you can't represent our country if you discriminate. Why? Because, last I checked, this was America the beautiful, land of the free and home of he brave.
Man up and quit your complaining. You have work to do

Honestly, if you plan on fighting for your country how about you start at the root?

Also, don't you dare assume I have no experience with life in the Military; don't make me pull out my resume.

Wait, who ever stated anything about homosexual marriage...

Dear Jessi D,

While I share your enthusiasm you probably misunderstand the point of this topic.

Sincerely,

Edward B

don't hate me for it i got a little happy plus iam young and bored. just 16

This is going to cause an up rise in the military! Things are going to get a lot worse than people think.

Once again, I point to Truman's racial integration of the military.

Get over my bad self? Are you ignorant? Seriously, you must be.. because obviously you have no knowledge about the military, so how can you know anything? If you don't know what you're talking about then you shouldn't say anything. It just makes you sound if more stupid then you already are.

I want you to know I just reported you for abuse! You are rude and the stuff you are saying is wrong!

Do even know what goes on in the military? I do apologize for my last post, bad day. I didn't mean to offend you or anything, I was having "one of those days." But seriously do you? I have lived with it my entire life and it's really all I know. It's not that I don't have anything against homosexuals it's my belief and the problems it will cause for not only the people in the military but for the homosexuals them self. If people are suppose to shower together and someone knows that they they're homosexual it'll be uncomfortable for everyone who is not. They military isn't going to build individual shower places for homosexuals. That's just not how things are. That is another reason why it would cause so many problems. There is more to it than just being discriminated against. It will make people feel ackward and it's not right that people like me feel like that. Nor is it fair for people to discriminate homosexuals. Either way it's a lose lose situation. It's just better left as it is. Because it's not like people don't know that someone is homosexual but for people who don't it makes them feel better that they don't have to feel like they should cover up or be careful about the things that they do.

And another thing, not being rude, just stating the facts. My name is clearly shown. So I do not see how you could even get "krista" or "kristi" so I would appreciate it if you would get that right. And to BILLY R i do know what I am talking about, obviously, or I would not have even started this post or still be talking about what I believe.
Again, AMANDA, sorry.

Well whatever your name is your RUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!

DADT? I haven't heard of it. I'm not trying to start anything. I apologized. Bc I didn't mean to be rude. So please treat me civily. I am sorry for doing that.. but I can't take it back, it's already been said and done. But I can apologize, which I have done. It's okay you didn't spell my name right. It's just a big pet peeve.. haha. Sorry. =D
Anyway, I see. Sorry for assuming. I guess the matter really just comes down to what you and I believe. No matter what happens, it's going to happen. No matter what we say or what we do.
Billy.. stay out of this if you're going to be rude.. I apologized and now you're the one who is being rude. I turned the conversation back around to where it wasn't rude, but civil. So please, just stop and save yourself some dignity because you're words don't mean anything to me.

Thank you. Oh okay. What exactly is that? If you don't mind explaining it to me.. I was just mad because that guy keeps being rude and that.. and I apologized so I was upset..

I see.. hmm

If anyones really that homophobic then they wouldn't join the military where they are so close to people of the same sex. I might join either the army or marines when im of age and I hope I can be open if I chose to.

Let's put it this way:
Are you attracted to EVERY girl you see? No.
So what makes you think a homosexual male would try going after everyone in the showers? ... someone sure has a big ego.


EDIT: I'm on the debate team, and this is the one topic no one has given a decent answer to my Coach on: "Why should I be forced to shower with men who could be attracted to me?"

The funny thing is, I'm sure if you were showering with a hundred other men in the army, there is likely at least one or two who actually are homosexual, you just don't know it because they're not open about it. What difference would it really make if you knew that they were gay or not? Just like you're not attracted to every girl you see. Seriously. Either you're self-conscious enough of yourself or have a decent-sized ego in thinking a homosexual man would hit on you.

Once again, you have made the assumption that nobody on this forum other than you has any connection to the military and can't tell the difference between the ways of thinking of a military mind and a civilian mind. Please stop being so pompous.

Next, you still have avoided the question I have posed twice in this thread. If this will cause so much trouble, why did Truman's integration of the military not cause any major trouble, especially considering that racial discrimination was a far bigger issue than sexual discrimination?

Next, I don't know about you, but I think I would be more paranoid knowing that there is a chance that somebody in the military is secretly a homosexual and can come from anywhere to get me than knowing who the homosexuals are so that if I have an issue with it, I could avoid the person at all possible times. The unknown is considered far more dangerous to the majority of people than the known because at least you can defend yourself against the known.

Finally, you still have not given any support as to why it would break unit cohesion, just stated again and again that it would.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? That is by far the most disgusting logic I've seen in a while. You're a disgusting pig for even comparing the two. Homosexual relationships in adults are CONSENSUAL, pedophilia IS NOT. They have nothing in common, sorry, try again. Don't even try, you're making yourself look ridiculous.

Second of all, maybe if you guys started acting like adults and quit making fun of homosexuals there wouldn't be as much of a problem.

And its very sickening to know that the people who are RISKING THEIR LIVES and representing our country are SCARED of a homosexual and uphold this sort of discrimination. That is by far the wimpiest thing I've ever heard.
How about you guys (in reference to those who you claim make fun of homosexuals) all grow a damn pair and start acting like soldiers.

When you're on the battlefield with your limbs blown off, it doesn't matter who carries you to the helicopter, does it?

XD are you f**king serious? ROFL your a idiot

Kelly K.. you are being rude. You have your opinion and he has his. I totally understand where Sonny is coming from.. He never said he was afraid of them just that it would be ackward. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion. That is what ticks me off the most about everyone on here. It's an opinion. You have no control over what someone is thinking and you have no place to call them an idiot or a pig because it is not YOUR opinion. It is rude.

ok so no openly gay people in the army.....isnt that good?

Yeah, I laughed too :P
But not that I was laughing at them, but at people in general. Some people are for it and have no clue what it is... it's just kinda funny.

I don't know what you've been through, but you have no idea what I've been through. So don't even start making assumptions.
And legally pedophilia does violate consent, due to the reasoning that most children and teens have no idea what they're doing when they say "Yes, lets fuck".
And I actually don't own a T.V. so it would be kind of impossible to make that the busy part of my day. Even if I did, it would be a little hard making it part of my "busy" part of the day considering the fact that I'm an Honors student at a university, an intern with the Pentagon, a first grade teacher and a part time waitress. Don't assume things.

And your idea of acting like a Marine seems skewed, or maybe I just know "better" Marines? Or maybe I have high standards, but what else should I expect from a Marine? I only expect the best. So thanks for being there, but... Well, just thanks.
A Marine is willing to risk their life for this country at all costs. I doubt having a homosexual sleep in the same room would thus hinder your ability to do so. Its either you are a marine or aren't one.

And don't flatter yourself, no one is going to pursue sexual actions towards you while you're asleep. A homosexual person isn't some sex-craving beast. They don't get a boner every time they see a person of the gender they pursue.
And if someone would attempt a sneak attack rape on you while you were asleep I don't think abolishing dont ask dont tell would be to blame. Obviously if a guy is going to rape you he could already be there, you just don't know he's gay. At least with getting rid of don't ask don't tell you'll be more aware of someones sexuality, so you can watch your ass if you feel threatened.

Lol @ General Conway; I would LOVE to see him try to bring back segregation. Only this time segregation isn't about race, its about sexuality!!! I'm lovin' it.

XD

Kelly, this is why I've missed you.
XD

It would be a problem if you had to share a room with someone who was homosexual. You would have to be very aware of what to wear around them, because you would have no idea if they were lusting after you. It would be hard to sleep because you would just be aware that there was someone of the same sex that might like you. It's not about being afraid to sleep nor is about it them being there. If they get the right to be comfortable in the open.. Then shouldn't straight people also have the same chance to be comfortable? Also, I totally agree with you sonny. Kelly I think you are being really rude and should watch what you say about other people who are also posting things.. It is very rude.

Well that tragic event happened with DADT in place, didnt it? Yes, thats an awful thing- to be taken advantage of and ruined on several levels, but allowing openly homosexual people in has nothing to do with it.

If someones going to commit a crime, they're going to do it. Like I said, at least with DADT out of the way, you'll know who to keep an eye on or whatnot.

And I'm excited to see Conway try. I'm REALLY excited.

You know whats even more exciting? Seeing Americans who are supposedly protecting us, shitting on our faces. Segregation and discrimination of race has been one of America's deepest shames; I'm surprised we didn't learn our lesson.